Original Wacom GD-0912-R on Windows 7 x64

Wacom – Getting a piece of history working.

One of the things that I used to paint textures as well as art is a very ancient Wacom GD-0912-R pad that I have been using ever since I had a 486. It’s a great pad really! I paid about $400 back in the 90’s for it. 17 inches of space to draw on making coloring super easy! The problem was the Wacom GD series of pads was discontinued since the windows XP era. You can still find these pads on Ebay ranging anywhere from $30 to $50 depending on condition, and the peripherals for this pad seem to be a bit of a collectors item. Taking note that extra pens cost $75. (I kick myself to this day that I misplaced the box of extra plastic nubs for my pen). For those wondering, the only pens that are compatible with the GD series is GD and GS series pens/mice/airbrushes. None of the Bambo or Intuios series pens will work with the GD series.

When I initially upgraded to windows 7 I was stuck between a rock in a hard place. Almost having to setup ANOTHER PC just for the sake of drawing again in Photoshop. Thankfully my new PC still had classic DB9 Serial ports on the back so hooking it directly was not even an issue. The issue was the software and making it actually TALK to the operating system.

Reading through some forums it pointed me in the right direction as to how to go about it. Mostly about finding the WacomTablet_605-7 Driver, downloading it. and Installing it to my PC. Drivers for the GD Series can be selected by clicking in “Intuos” for the model type and “Windows XP” to get this exact driver .

If you don’t want to go to Wacoms site and download the driver from there.

Click this link for the driver that I shall host here for your convenience.

 A kind word of warning. You should always go to the manufacturers website to download the drivers first and foremost and you shouldn’t be downloading things off of a share site unless you trust the individual that is offering the files. And always have a virus checker of some sort installed such as Avast. Or AVG. As sometimes not even the person offering the files may know if it is infected or not. 

Despite what the Microsoft Forums say, turning on Compatibility mode and running the program did not work for me at all. While it installed the ‘flicks’ utility that comes with the Wacom driver it did NOT install the drivers needed to drive my Wacom GD series tablet.

I am not one to throw away perfectly working tech! So here was my experience on how I got it working.

 

Installation of the Wacom pad:

Before you even get started your device manager should look something like the picture above. with the icon noted as “WACOM GD” with a driver not found. If you don’t even have this in your device manager, then there is something wrong with your connection settings (I.E. Wacom hooked up to COM3 instead of COM1, Serial chip set may be incompatible or in the absolute worst case scenario, due to the overall age of the Wacom pad, there could be a breach in your serial cable connection.)

Essentially, when windows boots up. it polls each serial port looking for devices and has done so since the windows 95 (and with some coaxing windows 3.1 ) such as serial based mice, UPS power supplies, and other hardware, your Wacom pad IS smart enough to let your operating system know it is there but not smart enough to automatically find the driver for you since Wacom did not feel like certifying a legacy driver with Microsoft’s update manager.

 

The very first thing you do of course is download the file off of the Wacom website. Remember to select the Intuos series and Windows XP. Choosing windows 7 is no good unless you have a USB edition which if you do have the USB edition your life got a lot easier and this whole topic is irrelevant to you. Do not click on the file! the only thing clicking on the file do at the very best will auto-extract the files to a temp folder and install the flick software. leaving you with a broken Wacom GD device in your device manager.

Instead, you will want to Extract the files in this .exe with a program like WinRAR to a folder (Picture above has me extracting the files to the root of my C: drive), this will not only allow you to setup your software in the compatibility mode you desire, but choose the driver files after it is done as in my case Windows 7 will try to look for the files and simply give up; Leaving only the Wacom GD device non-functional in the device manager.

The picture above is the directory listing containing all of the files that you just extracted. From here Right-Click on the Setup.exe and click on Properties 

From here, we will select the Compatibility tab and check the box “Run the program in compatibility mode for” and choose Windows 2000 from the drop-down menu. click OK on the bottom to close out of this window and then double-click to install.

Special notes: A lot of people have reported success with setting compatibility mode to Windows XP SP3 after first running Windows 2000 mode. Thanks for all of the feedback on this.

It will install the flick program, find drivers and FAIL at finding the drivers. Stay with us kids!

Get into your Device manager (Start, right-click computer, Manage, Device Manager, Etc) and then double-click on the Wacom GD Driver that has the yellow exclamation mark. Click on the Driver tab on the top and click the Update Driver button.

Click “Browse my computer for driver software”

We are not going to click next to try and automatically find the driver! It will fail. Instead we will tell it to “Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer”.

You may not see the window above right away. You may have to select All Devices on a window before you see this. click the “Have Disk” option to continue.

In the Wacom environment we are going to point to our install directory via /System32/64/Drivers and then click the “OK” Button.

Select the Wacom HID Device and click Next. It will then begin to install along with some possible other Wacom HID devices depending on how many options you have with your pad such as 3d-mouse or extra pens. I should note that there are some people that have had better luck installing the Wacom Virtual HID driver but after a majority of feedback i’ve gotten as well as testing this myself. the Wacom HID Device is the way to go.

You may receive an update driver warning. This is normal as we are forcing the driver into windows 7. Click Yes to continue.

If everything installed accordingly you should see the Wacom device drivers respectfully underneath the Human Interface Device tree within device manager. After the exclamations went away I tested out my Wacom with my pen and it registered perfectly. So thank you very much for reading through all of that. I hope this blog entry was at least visually pleasing versus going through the endless forums messages.

Special notes about the Adobe CS collection:

For some reason the 64 bit versions of Photoshop and Illustrator do not seem to acknowledge pressure sensitivity with this pad. I didn’t have this problem with CS5 but CS6 it is now getting angry with. 32-bit is operating just fine. You will notice the exclamation mark next to pen pressure where adobe states “control by pen pressure requires a pressure sensitive tablet.” Gimp and Paint Tool Sai work without issue because they are naturally 32 bit programs. If anyone knows a work-around for this issue I would be happy to hear it!

One less excuse to slack off and watch movies now. Now I can draw!

Peace!

39 thoughts on “Original Wacom GD-0912-R on Windows 7 x64

  1. Thanks! Your solution didn’t work for me, but helped me a lot in getting my tablet up and running.

    Here’s how I got it working:
    The steps I took were similar to yours, but:

    I couldn’t find the folder c:\WacomTablet_605-7\, so I unzipped WacomTablet_605-7.exe with WinRar to get at the unzipped drivers. (it’s a self-extracting zip file which WinRar recognises)

    2. The “Wacom Virtual HID Driver” did *not* work for me: Instead I used the “Wacom Hid Device” — the fact that this driver worked and not the one you recommend may be due to differences in the driver versions in the file.

    Thanks again,

    Josh

    • Hey Josh,

      Thanks for letting me know how it worked out for you! I have amended your suggestions into this blog in case if any other users have had difficulties in getting their old Wacom pads working.

      Thank you!

      – S

  2. Thanks a lot for your solution! I tried your method in Windows 8 Pro and it works. But there is no pressure and tilt sensitivity in painting programs.

    Any advice?
    Thanks in advance!

    • Hello!

      Hmm, doing some google-fu it seems there’s a lot of issues with Wacom tablets in general interfering on windows 8 platforms, sometimes it’s a latency issues, and sometimes the problem you describe with the pressure sensitivity not working. I have not installed windows 8 myself but i’ll try to do that this weekend in order to update this blog entry.

      One problem which may be getting in the way of your Wacom could be the notion that windows detects a ‘touchpen’ like driver active and since windows 8 is very touch-panel happy the imbedded services could be preventing the Wacom driver from doing its job. My guess would be you could try to disable the “TabletInputService” in the services tab of your device manager since Wacom does not need it. I have not tested this advice on a windows 8 pc myself so as always, do it at your own risk.:)

      Also, pressure sensitivity for me has been known to drop out from time to time in certain paint packages. For example inn Adobe CS5 it works all the time. However, in Paint-Tool SAI it sometimes drops when I swap windows back and fourth too many times. The same with GIMP.

      I am not sure if you tried this ;But if you run the setup file to get all of the wacom based software installed, outside of ‘flicks’ it also installs a “Wacom tablet properties” utility that you can find under the ‘start’ menu system in the “Wacom Tablet” folder. The utility allows you to check without a paint package running and make sure that at the very least your wacom is talking to windows fine.

      That’s all I can provide for now. If I install windows 8 and see the problem your having i’ll try to get a work-around going to update.

      Thanks for checking out my site!

      – S

  3. Hello S! Thanks for taking your time.

    The last 2 days I was experimenting with several drivers, with versions ranging from 605-7 to 612-5. Unfortunately the results were the same: no pressure/tilt sensitivity. Deactivating the “TabletInputService” made no change.

    Interesting is that, as you said, the Wacom tablet utility indeed registers both pressure and tilt sensitivity. It seems like the tablet is perfectly talking to Windows but the paint programs are not able to use those features.

    Then I remembered reading in a forum about the same issues some users were having, but on Windows 7 64bit. They solved it installing the same driver again in Vista compatibility mode.
    So, first I installed the driver with your method (Windows 2000 compatibility mode, then manually Virtual HID device). Afterwards I installed the same driver in Vista compatibility mode. Always rebooting between these steps. Then one after another I tested the sensitivity in every single paint app I could install at the moment (Fresh Paint, Sketchbook Pro, Bamboo), and it works!

    BUT…
    The pen’s side buttons don’t work in those paint apps anymore. They work system wide, like right clicking on a file or double clicking. But i.e. in Fresh Paint, right clicking is ignored; in Sketchbook Pro it performs a wrong action.
    That means, I can have only one of those features: pen buttons working everywhere, but no pressure/tilt sensitivity OR working pressure/tilt sensitivity but no right click in paint apps.

    If you have some ideas, I would gladly test them on my pc.

    Before you install Windows 8 you should know that there is no Win2000 compatibility mode anymore. But you still can set it “manually” using Microsoft Application Compatibility Toolkit. There is a tutorial for Windows 8 users.

  4. Thank you. I tried a serial to usb adapter. No luck. bought a PCI serial card. still no luck. Wacom Tech Support sent me instructions for a Win 7 driver but it didn’t work. Found your post today and after several tries and retries, I got it right and my old friend is back in business on my newer Win 7 machine. Hate to toss something as fine as this old GD 912-R.

    Thanks for taking the time to share your fix!

  5. I have the usb version and recently changed to win 7 when it stopped working, The driver you recommend worked first time and even gives better pressure sensitivity than I had previously.
    Xlent

    • I have not tested any of the USB Wacom pads with this article, but it’s good to know that it works for that too!

      Thanks for the feedback!

      – S

  6. Hi everybody.

    I was glad to find this article, in order to try to run the GD 912R on my laptop with Win7…
    I didn’t know how to start, which driver installing, etc..
    Well it helps me on the method, but…. it seems there’s a problem from my side, because it doesn’t work…
    There are several points i’ve noticed that put me away from the detailed method described above..
    First, when I unzip the 605.7 driver in a new folder, i can’t see all the files the scrennshot above at this step shows… Anyway, i can right clic on the exe file (605.7 driver, directly) and choose “properties”, administrator, Win 2000 compatibility, etC…”, I think it’s the same result.
    Well, it goes right.

    After this, I see my GD912R in the computer magement, in the group “other device” with the yellow wtriangle mark, and from this point, i apply the method you describe above…
    it goes right until i found the wacom hid driver, etc… and from this point, the wacom tablet is non longer visible in “other device” (it dissapears), and i can see a lot of wacom items like wacom HID device, HID driver etc…”
    No error message or anything that can let me think taht something went wrong… But it stil doesn’t work :( …
    Is it absolutely sure that one have to choose win 2000 compatibility for make it work ??

    Thanks in advance for your help and support!!!

    Pascal.

    • To answer those questions. Windows 2000 compatibility mode is only required to run the setup and to install the Wacom utilities which are nice to have in case you want to assign macros to some of the number buttons on the top of your Wacom pad.

      It is natural for the Wacom pad to move from Other Devices to HID devices. In fact the reason why you see so many of the same Wacom device is I believe it is reading every device that you set on the pad (pens, 3d mice. etc) So all of that should be totally normal. I did post both methods of install the “Wacom Virtual HID driver” and then just the “Wacom HID driver” Because I had success with both methods of install. The “Wacom HID driver” method I have had more success with especially after changing serial ports on my motherboard.

      When you press your wacom pen down on the pad it changes from amber light to green right? I know it seems a little dumb to ask. But with the age of the hardware we are trying to revive you never know. If your light is not changing to green when you click on your pen or press down on the pad then the pad is working fine and you may have a defective pen.

      Thanks for checking out my blog!

  7. THANK YOU! you’ve saved another bit of tech from the dump

    before finding your blog I spent all afternoon on this. I knew it was possible, as I had the Intuos GD working before on the same laptop, but it had messed up and I was flummoxed.

    If you ever spot Pandora’s Lunchbox at a UK or European festival (usually music) please ask for Jo and claim your free meal!
    you can see our list of events this coming spring, on our website.

  8. Thank you so much i owe you a beer!
    Your description is very good but i had some issues (win7 x64)
    I ran setup.exe as you wrote win2000 comp mode. Pen settings won’t work like this (win said it’s 32bit wacom tablet) so i made it winxp sp2. Well i just wanted to share it if anyone have the same issue.
    Anyway i almost gave up my old wacom tablet but you saved it for me :)
    100000000 thanks

  9. Thx 4 your tutorial
    Now i can use my g-0912-u on windows 8.1
    It is perfectly work every function even pressure.
    only one problem is not working pressure on 64bit aplication.

    Thank you and thx to google searching bot

  10. im so stoked i found this blog – i jsut today picked out my old serial intuos, and i realize my new computer does not have a serial port. will the fix above work on if i use the wacom tablet with a pcie serial card?

    • It should work as PCI serial cards simply add the port directly to your BIOS which your OS can see. The only thing I could suggest is to stay away from any I/O cards which have proprietary software/drivers such as “Digi” boxes as depending on how the driver loads it might not let the OS actually “Look” for your Wacom.

      There’s also a handful of USB Serial cards that I have been testing on my laptop and have worked but the pass/fail rate is much higher then using a legitimate card. I especially like the Serial USB adapters which have the Rx/Tx lights on them letting you know that it is talking to your Wacom. If you have a local chain store which has a good return policy you can give a serial USB card a try as well.

  11. Worked getting an old GD-1212-R up and running on W7. However, I used the 6.1.2-5 driver from Wacom. Compatibility mode running as Vista.

    Thanks a bunch…if only the tablet would work on my Mac with Yosemite…

    • I do not own a mac. However, I have been reading that there is an app for OSX which is supposed to do roughly the same thing as the wacom legacy driver does. It’s called TabletMagic . I’m not sure how it behaves with USBserial adapters but it’s worth a shot.

  12. Hi there,

    After spending a lot of time searching the web and reading through dozens of forums I found a solution that worked for me. Unfortunately I forgot to take some notes about what I have done and just a few weeks ago I messed up my system and the tablet stopped working.
    Then I had to start over and after many non-working solutions I came across this site which seemed very promising. I did as you wrote, but it didn’t work for me. At least not as it should. But then my memory was refreshed again.

    So, what worked for me is very simple:
    just run the installer in compatibility mode for Windows XP (Service Pack 2). That’s it!

    I’m using Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Service Pack 1

    All pen buttons and the tablet toolbar work properly and are customizable in the “Wacom Control Panel”

    Actually I used “WacomIntuosPro610-6_int” but somehow this time it didn’t work so I used the one you recommended and everything’s fine now.
    Maybe not everybody likes it, but I have all the extra features, such as Flicks, etc.

    Here are some screenshots:
    installer compatibility settings
    Flicks
    Control Panel item
    Wacom Control Panel
    Version
    Device Manager items

    Hope this will help anyone

  13. hi there, had a question maybe someone can help me out with. im new to this graphics tablet stuff.

    but anyways i might pick one of these up on freecycle and was wondering how i find out what pens are compatible and how hard it would be to get one for this pad, cause its missing the stylus.
    and how much does a replacement stylus run?
    any help would be appreciated thanks!

    • The pens and accessories like airbrush and 3-d mouse are somewhat of a collectors item. The pens especially as you can program different brushes for the type of pen you use. Ebay right now have them going between $45-$60 but occasionally there is a few that show up for around $20 as the buyer does not know what they have.

      As for compatibility. This is where it really sucks with the GD series. Because the GD pens are only compatible with itself. It isn’t like the newer Intuos pens where there was a few generations in between where they worked. The GC series pens are also reported to work.

      Special note: American and European versions of GD series pens are interchangeable.

    • After about 3 days of fresh installing windows 10 x64. trying different Wacom drivers. force injecting the Wacom_Tablet.dat file as described by this guy I’ve hit a brick wall . Not because I can’t install the drivers. in device managers the drivers in windows 10 look perfectly fine. It has more to do with how “TabletServiceWacom” service starts logging errors in windows 10 because no matter what you attempt to update it will always want to contact the USB even after replacing the .dat file. This isn’t to say all hope is lost just it may take a little longer to figure out.

  14. I have the orig Intuos (GD) tablet, I also wish for support in Windows 10. Some of the linux OSs I’ve tried have been able to run the tablet by default (without having to install anything), and on some with GIMP you have full pressure sensitivity! Both Microsoft and Wacom should be shamed into making a driver just for “environmental” reasons that these corporations are always pushing. Why have another device thrown in the landfill? I would imagine that even the recycling process for devices like this are not without environmental consequence. Why not let people use devices as long as they are still functioning? They just want you to sell you the latest and greatest which doesn’t really do anything more than this old tablet which still works like new and is good enough for what I need. Plus their new tablets are overpriced and the designs aren’t as space efficient as they should be, they bulkier and yet not as durable as the old ones, even their original Wacom serial tablet design from like 20 years ago was more of a technological marvel. I’m not sure people realize how dumbed-down things have become.

    • You had it working for a while after the windows 10 upgrade? Hmm, I was doing fresh install and kept running into a wall with the Wacom services failing to load. I’m going to have to revisit this to see if there’s some security issues with windows 10 that’s preventing legacy drivers from talking to device manager properly.

  15. I have the old Wacom GD-0912-U (USB version) and the driver you suggested works fine on windows 10 running Photoshop CC, no problems with pressure sensitivity…Thanks!

  16. Another fan of the old GD1218-R!! I used to use this all the time for rotoscoping, 3D animation, retouching, painting in Painter X and even using Cubase! An old geek from the TV studios!

    I just built a new quadcore machine for my music etc and want to get my trusty Wacom happening again. But I have been all over the net and tried all kinds of things, including the above. I set the PC up with win7 x64 and upgraded to 10.

    I have currently got the drivers from 605-7.exe and the additional drivers seem to be there fine. But the HID driver itself disappears again immediately after installing it, no matter which way I do it. I get an error 441 “device could not be migrated” message in the event viewer.

    So nothing has worked so far. All hair torn out now. Have ordered the Keyspan USB to Serial converter to see if I can do it that way.

    If the worst comes to the worst I will just have to build another machine ( I already have too many!!) and install XP SP3 on it with my art software so I can use the tablet on that. I will also in the meantime try and install it on my laptop which is running XP already. Small screen but I can see if the tablet is working fine that way. I would have to buy a monitor switcher for the new build though…

  17. Me again!

    Oh well. The worst came to the worst. No amount of jury rigging would make my Wacom tablet talk to my windows 10 PC!! Plus the laptop with XP wouldn’t see the USB converter well enough for the Wacom to talk to it nicely.

    So at the cost of a cheap case with fan, a 1TB WD HDD, and cheap power supply, I used a mother board and CPU with memory I had in a box plus a few more odds and sods, a legal version of XP SP3 I had lying around, I now have a dedicated machine with just my art, dtp and illustration packages on it and nothing else and the old GD1218-R talks to it perfectly.

    It does mean I now have three PC’s plus a laptop and a range of other screen type devices, each of which excels at its own thing. But what the hell! I can once again use my amazing Wacom tablet like I want to!! And as you all know, they were built so well it will probably last another 30 years!!

  18. Thank you so much for putting this stuff up here! I just have one issue. I only have the option of using the Windows 2000 computer and tower I currently have with the tablet and a really old version of photoshop, or attempting to get the tablet to talk to my HP Windows 10. HELP!
    P.S. Not too urgent, but I was hoping to get out of my cold, 3′ crawlspace (my tablet’s current hookup residence) and into the less cold basement (where my HP is).

  19. After a 4 hours fighting with GD-0912-U (USB) drivers, I’ve found that the latest driver for the GD series is 6.1.2-5 (11/25/2009), which is compatible with XP, Vista or Windows 7 – downloadable from WACOM site – Intuos GD.
    http://www.wacom.com/en-us/support/product-support/drivers?pid=67637D23A34549C4A0983B123F962F8E
    After removing previously installed not working driver (6.3.15-2) and restart, the new one (11/25/2009!) was installed without any additional moves :-) on Wndows 7 Pro x64.
    I hope it will do the same with the R model too as the drivers are the same.
    Didn’t tried with Windows 10 yet.

  20. Hola, soy Alex de Argentina, Muchas Gracias por la información de todos, segui los pasos, tengo la Wacom 608 funciona con el método Wacom Virtual Hid Driver, efectivamente la presión del lápiz funciona con Photoshop Cs6 86x, pero yo tengo 2 monitores y la Wacom por default toma los dos espacios, recuerdo que tenia un programa para configurar, hasta que descubri que el archivo no es un EXE sino un CPL, se encuentra dentro del la carpeta SYSTEM32 y se llama WacomTablet.cpl si ejecutan con el botón derecho Ejecutar como Administrador, se les abrir la ventana, donde tendrán toda la configuración. Espero que les sirva el pequeño aporte, muchas gracias.

    Hi, I’m Alex de Argentina , Thank you for the information of all , I followed the steps , I have the Wacom 608 works with the method Wacom Virtual Hid Driver , effectively pen pressure works with Photoshop CS6 86x , but I have 2 monitors and Wacom by default takes the two spaces , I remember had a program to set up , until I discovered that the file is not an EXE but a CPL , is within the System32 folder and is called WacomTablet.cpl if running right Run as Administrator , they open the window, where they will all settings. I hope you learn the small contribution , thank you very much .

  21. HOW AMAZING TO FIND OUT I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO LOVES ALL THE OLD WACOM TABLETS!
    I got my original Wacom With Painter4 by Metacreations (which was bought out by Corel) This Painter program was so superior to ANY I have used since…Sketchbook and ArtRage comes close but Painter had all the bells and whistles back in the late 80’s…
    WACOM Tablets are by far the BEST on the Planet and I Have 9 right Now…I just stumbled upon my First
    GD 9012 U I already Had the 3 pen set and was anxious to try it out…WACOM has been so good at having all the drivers till this tablet…so your SOLUTION Was Heaven Sent!
    I have the pad working on my Oldest Dell Inspiron Which still works great with my Old stand by Painter program….It’s sooo Sad when a software does EVERYTHING you want and more then gets bought out by Companies with FAR less Creativity…
    I have made my living Drawing and Painting DOGS, HORSES, COWS, PIGS AND ALL KINDS OF ANIMALS on my Wacom Tablet…I couldn’t have done it without the Tablet and a Great Painter program…I create T-Shirts with my Artwork and Have Been so Blessed with this combo of WORKING Creative Products….
    I am so Glad and Have made it a Quest to Save and ReVIVE As Many Wacom Tablets As I can and get them into the Hands of Artists Young and Old….Let’s just hope WACOM does not go too far off the path of Corporate Greed and Continues to Create Great Art Tablets for us all!
    I would have never event bought a Computer If I couldn’t have drawn into it!!!
    LONG LIVE WACOM! LONG LIVE ARTISTS!!! AND LET’S SAVE THESE WONDERFUL PADS FROM THE LANDFILLS! They all Have Tons of Creations in them Waiting to Be Released into the ART WORLD!!!
    And thank you so much for your BLOG keep up the Great Effort!
    Crystal of CrittersVille
    Crystal of CrittersVille

  22. YES! another GD Wacom saved- and perhaps my sanity too. I logged my hours and have so far spent 3 full working days getting this piece of junk going again.

    MASSIVE thank you.

    I just want to add to any newbies, IF YOU ARE USING A SERIAL TO USB CABLE MAKE SURE TO ADD THE DRIVERS FOR THE CABLE FIRST. and if, like me, you could not work out what USB Serial cable you have in the first place, try this blog https://www.campbellsci.com/blog/usb-rs-232-adapter-cable-issues for how to find out what cable you are using.

    I did also need to run the programme download from here in a combination of windows 2000 and Windows xp 3 modes, though in the end it worked with XP first, then 2000. I also had to get rid of a few unexplained devices that were not the one I needed. I was a hairs thickness away several times, from throwing it all in the bin.

    I also used two usb ports before finding it needed to be the third and final one available.

    DON’T GIVE UP
    IF IT ISN’T BROKEN IT’S NOT WORTH KEEPING ;)

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